Curse

Shmash Witdaclub · Dec 12, 2005, 04:24 PM // 16:24

I was in a top reputable guild for some time now and I was just booted the other day while I was inactive due to recovering from surgery.

Anyway, when I came back I asked why I was booted and they said that they had decided that they were going to go to a strictly rank 6 or 7+ guild. Okay, I guess I can understand that, I am only rank 3.

Why am I only rank 3? Do I suck? I of course do not think so. I am one of guild wars' thousands of casual players. I did not have neither 1/4th of the amount of time played or deaths accrued as the amount of my fellow guild members, so how can I be expected to be the same rank as them?

What upsets me the most about all this is the fact that I thought we were all close in the guild. I did not know any of them in RL, but met in them all in game. But as we did tombs and gvg battles and such we became rather close in terms of internet gamers. We knew eachother and we all knew what the others were about.

Then I got booted.

So, my question why is it so important that every guild member be a certain rank? An obvious answer (some may argue) that the amount of ones rank shows the amount of there pvp knowledge.

cough IWAY BS cough

Others might say that they need the room in guild for more members - okay I can understand this one; however, my guild only had like 15 active members.

I am just curious if other people have experienced situations similar to this one? This event has really left a bad taste in my mouth towards guild wars and my previous guild. I am kind of upset towards guild wars since the only thing left for people to do in game for most people is fame farm - which I believe is partially a reason that this happened with my guild. The other obvious reason I am upset is because of the actions of my former guild.

And for those of you that want to flame, I could move on and find a new guild, you're right! It is just that I was happy with the old guild - it was not a pug guild - no immature players - everyone playing basically with the same mindset. It is kinda like I had the experience of being in an almost flawless guild and I am not sure if I want anything else.

I am thinking about hanging up my hammer now til chap 2 comes out.

Anyway, anyone else have any comments on the rank rave?

Shmash

twicky_kid · Dec 12, 2005, 04:34 PM // 16:34

i know how you feel. i've done gvg the entire time and never played tombs much. i have over 275K faction but only 1 rank. luckly i found a rank 6+ guild and they allowed me in after playing with me a few times.

rank is a vicious cycle. to get rank you need a good group (usually determined by rank) and to get a group you need rank.

you can always come to my guild. we are currently gvg alot. first day we gvg we went to rank 750 after 15 wins in a row. its a rank 6+ guild but they care more about if you accually play.

Shimus DarkRaven · Dec 12, 2005, 04:38 PM // 16:38

It's a bunch of bologna, the "Rank Rave" IMHO, yes, rank does show you know a bit about PVP but some rank 0's I've met can easily outdo these rank 8-12's.

Also, I think one of the reasons they did that to you was they were believing the "myth".

The "Myth": If everyone is rank something+ the guild will do better overall in GVG, PVP and suddenly rise to the top of the guild ladder.

The "Reality": Some guilds I played in tombs and GVG easily can out-do some rank 200+ guilds, being rank 5k-below.

In my opinion, it's all bologna.

But don't hang up the hammer, find something else to do, even if you maxed levels, gotten all you think you need...seeing as they kicked you, find a new guild? Mine is always open to everyone, though I'd like to get to know you better, first. But we're a family oriented guild, friendly people, not hellbent on getting rank+

Let me know.

--The Shim

Greygon · Dec 12, 2005, 04:39 PM // 16:39

I think that it sucks the way you were treated by your guild. In my guild if someone is not active for a while and they tell us before hand it is no big deal. If you desire to be in a high level PvP guild though I guess you have to take the good with the bad.

I personally would not blame Guild Wars. There is always lots of stuff to do besides farm fame. Just because you have beaten the game doesn't mean the game is over. Uncover the map! Explore! Farm for Greens! Farm for Golds! Start a new guild and help your guildies get to the level you are!

If you decide to hang it up for a while I wouldn't blame you, but don't forget that there are LOTS of things to do in GW besides the missions and PvP.

EagleEye33 · Dec 12, 2005, 04:48 PM // 16:48

yea it sad with the whole rank thing and what ita ctually means. with the builds we have now and fame farming rank is nearly ruined, if not already. I say just forget about it and do this. Find a new guild meet up with them (old guild) and get revenge, show them that your rank may be a lil lower but still good. They obviously thought u werent THAT good enough for them so, own them and say wheres the rank?

WetWookie · Dec 12, 2005, 04:51 PM // 16:51

Ha. I have a funny story along these lines.

I'm a casual player too. I go to the tombs only occasionally but I'm smart and know what i'm doing. Yesterday I show up at tombs with my necro and get invited to a party that is trying to run a build around two necros casting soul barbs on separate targets and two teams of mesmers each casting hexes and shatter delusions on those targets. Another necro gets invited and he starts going on and on asking "is this a r3+ group". It wasn't so nobody answered him but he just went on and on. Eventually the leader starts explaining the build and it was apparent the other necro did not understand. He asked if it was alright if I would do the calling and i had to explain again that we are each going after different targets. We almost left with him not having soul barbs on his bar. We asked him again if he understood what he was supposed to do and he replies "cast soul barbs and then start casting orders". This guy who was all concerned that we should be r3+ didn't even know what the skills he uses do. The skills he obviously uses everyday in an IWAY group. We dropped him from the party in favor of a peanut butter and jelly sandwich with more brains.

ShotGunBunny · Dec 12, 2005, 04:55 PM // 16:55

IMO the fame and rank system is just as bad as the WoW honor system except with less rewards, go figure.

crimsonfilms · Dec 12, 2005, 05:14 PM // 17:14

Quote:

I did not have neither 1/4th of the amount of time played or deaths accrued as the amount of my fellow guild members, so how can I be expected to be the same rank as them?

That is really your problem and not theirs- same as you have no obligation to keep a level 12 for Thunderhead mission.
They want people devoted to serious PvP, you just don't the time. Not a big deal find another guild.

Quote:

I was in a top reputable guild for some time now and I was just booted

If rank does not matter to you then you can easily find non top guilds out there that will want your services. You can't complain about rank and have a desire to be a "top guild" right?
You can't have your cake and eat it too!.

Quote:

cough IWAY BS cough

Stop using the IWAY thing. It is rather cliche. Anyways if you really want to be with them get your Rank 6 - IWAY if you want - then come back.

Quote:

okay I can understand this one; however, my guild only had like 15 active members

Actually, many if not most high ranked guilds have low number of members. This is because they tend to be dependable and active members where they can learn to play together.

Quote:

Some guilds I played in tombs and GVG easily can out-do some rank 200+ guilds, being rank 5k-below.

Because you and many guilds equate RANK, as in Tombs Rank, applies to GvG. While many skills and strategy do, GvG is quite different from Tombs.
So yes you are correct about Rank does not matter *as much* in GvG because the experience is quite different (but not absolute).

Quote:

If everyone is rank something+ the guild will do better overall in GVG, PVP and suddenly rise to the top of the guild ladder.

No there is no myth - people just want players the have *likelyhood* skills and experience to do competative PvP.
Rank is no different from other criteria people impose to be efficient - be it level 20, Teamspeak, Superior runes, the right build, etc.

Rank, in my opion, is not flawed for the most part. Most of its shortcomings are people themselves applying it the wrong way or people wanting the benefit of it without actually trying to earn it.

.02

fiery · Dec 12, 2005, 05:18 PM // 17:18

people with rank 3 not always good players. should say enough. fame farmers, who become rank 3..right after leave the group and start spamming rank +3 IWAY...rushing in unorganized..and thus a crappy PUG is born.

burai · Dec 12, 2005, 05:26 PM // 17:26

IMHO it's elitism - and there's rather a lot of it in this game - at it's worst.

Shmash Witdaclub · Dec 12, 2005, 05:37 PM // 17:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Greygon

Just because you have beaten the game doesn't mean the game is over. Uncover the map! Explore! Farm for Greens! Farm for Golds!

I have done a good majority of this already. IMO - I have done fairly well. But honestly, if I wanted to go just do farming and grinding through this and that, there are far better games, again IMO, intended for this. You fill in the blank with whichever game you so feel. The only thing guild wars has vs those other games in this regaurd is the no pay per play - which is god for casual gamers i might add.

The thing that I loved about guild wars was the pvp aspect of it, but that, as my original intent in this thread, is now tainted due to the what i am calling "rank rave" of so many people.

I appreciate all of your comments, please keep them coming.

Shmash

Josh · Dec 12, 2005, 05:38 PM // 17:38

Ditto, in my opinion, I play every type of character, specializing in Elementalists, as it as my first character with all Spells unlocked, and enjoy it the most, I have many Elementalist builds, and I'm effective with it too, however I'm only R1, and people think I'm shit because of it...So at the moment, I'm Guildless. ;\

Shmash Witdaclub · Dec 12, 2005, 05:49 PM // 17:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by crimsonfilms

That is really your problem and not theirs- same as you have no obligation to keep a level 12 for Thunderhead mission.
They want people devoted to serious PvP, you just don't the time. Not a big deal find another guild.

I completely agree!

Quote:

Originally Posted by crimsonfilms

If rank does not matter to you then you can easily find non top guilds out there that will want your services. You can't complain about rank and have a desire to be a "top guild" right?
You can't have your cake and eat it too!.

That is a very good point, I guess the bigger part of my arguement is that, going along with the fact that yes I did enjoy being in a strong reputable guild, I also enjoyed the friendships.

Quote:

Originally Posted by crimsonfilms

Rank, in my opion, is not flawed for the most part. Most of its shortcomings are people themselves applying it the wrong way or people wanting the benefit of it without actually trying to earn it.

Again I agree with you.

Shmash

ps- did not intend to turn it into an IWAY thing either, it is just that I like to be original and I will not conform to playing in one of those groups just to fame farm so i can be "elite" once again - since according to todays standards I no longer am.

Epinephrine · Dec 12, 2005, 05:51 PM // 17:51

Rank is garbage.
So is faction.
Anyone can farm faction easily, it takes no effort, you only have to play one build to be able to do it. True skill is developed by playing a variety of roles, being able to determine how a build fits in and when to use what, and of course through in game experience in PvP, developing situational awareness and so on. Faction, rank, experience, time played, some of these may have a correlation with skill, but none are measures of it. I'm not a bad player, and I am Rank 1. Why? I hate tombs. I really would rather play basically any other type of PvP. What about faction as a measure? Well, it is so easy to go 10 straight in CA with a monk that you can farm faction for unlocks playing only one build, and only ever learning how disorganised CA combats play. Experience? Don't make me laugh - playing a solo 55 monk for endless runs does not make one a good player.

The fact is that good players can be identified by their knowledge of the game and by their play, and that's it.

Deadlyjunk · Dec 12, 2005, 06:03 PM // 18:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by burai

IMHO it's elitism - and there's rather a lot of it in this game - at it's worst.

Though I agree wholeheartedly, if in game elitism bothers you, why are you wearing 15K platemail? *avatar*

fallot · Dec 12, 2005, 06:27 PM // 18:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by WetWookie

Ha. I have a funny story along these lines.

I'm a casual player too. I go to the tombs only occasionally but I'm smart and know what i'm doing. Yesterday I show up at tombs with my necro and get invited to a party that is trying to run a build around two necros casting soul barbs on separate targets and two teams of mesmers each casting hexes and shatter delusions on those targets. Another necro gets invited and he starts going on and on asking "is this a r3+ group". It wasn't so nobody answered him but he just went on and on. Eventually the leader starts explaining the build and it was apparent the other necro did not understand. He asked if it was alright if I would do the calling and i had to explain again that we are each going after different targets. We almost left with him not having soul barbs on his bar. We asked him again if he understood what he was supposed to do and he replies "cast soul barbs and then start casting orders". This guy who was all concerned that we should be r3+ didn't even know what the skills he uses do. The skills he obviously uses everyday in an IWAY group. We dropped him from the party in favor of a peanut butter and jelly sandwich with more brains.

OMG thats hilarious! Was he rank 3 himself ?

mamluk · Dec 12, 2005, 06:54 PM // 18:54

I think its sad to hear of guilds that think they are good looking for specific ranks as an admission of requirement. What's even funnier is that best guilds arent like that, guilds like iQ for instance.
The skill and challenge is in GvG for which fame means nothing. If you guys really want to find top skilled guilds, look for the ones at the top of the GvG ladder, not the ones with the most rank 9+ tombs RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOs.

Navaros · Dec 12, 2005, 06:59 PM // 18:59

The simple reality is that most players who are not rank 6 do indeed suck.

Hence it is only logical to presume that someone who is not rank 6 or more is likely to suck.

Yes, there are rank 6 players who suck. But that's besides the point. The likelihood of a rank 6 or higher player sucking is far less than that of a rank 3 player sucking.

Therefore it is perfectly logical to not want anything less than rank 6.

Shmash Witdaclub · Dec 12, 2005, 07:12 PM // 19:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Navaros

The simple reality is that most players who are not rank 6 do indeed suck.

Hence it is only logical to presume that someone who is not rank 6 or more is likely to suck.

Yes, there are rank 6 players who suck. But that's besides the point. The likelihood of a rank 6 or higher player sucking is far less than that of a rank 3 player sucking.

Therefore it is perfectly logical to not want anything less than rank 6.

so then, back to my main topic, what about the people that you have played with, for quite some time, and are less than rank 6 but do not suck? is it ok to boot them just for not having the time to be uber ranked? You said MOST players, not all players lower than rank 6, so therefore you believe that rank does not necessarily identify skill.

Yes, I do agree with you that a rank 6 player is less likely to be noobish than a rank 1,2,3,4,5 person. but not all the time.

Shmash

Epinephrine · Dec 12, 2005, 07:24 PM // 19:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Navaros

The simple reality is that most players who are not rank 6 do indeed suck.

Hence it is only logical to presume that someone who is not rank 6 or more is likely to suck.

Yes, there are rank 6 players who suck. But that's besides the point. The likelihood of a rank 6 or higher player sucking is far less than that of a rank 3 player sucking.

Therefore it is perfectly logical to not want anything less than rank 6.

Not really... Let's say I acknowledge that there is a lesser amount of suckage (at least proportionately) among rank 6+ players (which I am not certain about but seems credible in some ways). Then the difference in the suckage levels as well as the sizes of the populations are in question.

For example, if 75% of rank 6+ folk suck, and 77% of rank 3+ folk suck, and 79% of rank 1+ folk suck, that's not a huge difference. I mean, really, you aren't exactly making a huge difference nomatter what, you're just prolonging your recruiting to have a modestly better chance of getting a non-sucky player.

Taken to another level, lets say that huge differences in skill exist. Say 90% of rank 0+ players suck, 70% of rank 3+ players suck and a mere 40% of rank 6+ players suck. Then lets say that by spending a mere 20 seconds asking a few simple questions you can with 95% accuracy determine whether a person sucks or not. Applying this to the various groups you end up with a very good chance of building a good group out of low rank players, given a lot of time weeding out the sucky players time questioning them. You end up with a good group of high rank players if you can find them, but instead of spending time interviewing them you end up spending time spamming "looking for rank6+players" for 40 minutes. You could go the middle route, and accept a wider variety of players, and spend a mid-range amount of time sorting, and a mid range amount of time spamming for rank 3+ players. All three groups will probably be similar, since you have bothered to select your players. Will the rank 6 team be better? Maybe. Then again, what do I know, I'm rank 1 and I've only been to HoH twice, both times in teams with a mix of high rank and low rank players, with a solid build and folks that understood what the goal was.